Lamont meets up with award-winning Maine architect, Carla Haskell to visit The Grand Theatre, a historic venue on the coast and then she heads to her firm to talk about creating space and her unconventional start in the field of architecture.
Announcer: Every music venue has a story, a culture, and each is a portal to discovery. Kyle Lamont, host and producer of Concert Cast, is your guide on a journey through today's concert culture. Season one, a road trip around Maine was released in the wake of a global pandemic rocked by the cataclysmic shift, Lamont began to document the movement in season two will connect deeper with thought leaders who are creatively adapting and recalibrating the next rendition of concert-going and culture. In this episode, we meet up with award-winning main architect Carla Haskell, to visit a historic venue on the coast and then head to her firm to talk about creating space and her unconventional start in the field of architecture.
Kyle Lamont: In 2010, I watched David Byrne give a talk about his new book, How Music Works, at a very cool venue in Brooklyn called The Bell House, I mistakenly went thinking it was going to be all about him as a talking head. So I had to play serious catch up when he was less rocker and more professor of rock with a thesis on why music venues matter and how they shape artistic creation. Little did I know that this lecture and his book would be subconsciously steering my love for visiting venues and analyzing their gift to the world of music. One of his many arguments in the book was how music perfectly fits the place where it's heard and how the relationship between sonics and structure should not be overlooked. I've been patiently waiting to talk with an architect who can shed light on the process of creation from their point of view and as chance and timing would have it. I've connected with an architect who works right down the street from my studio here in Ellsworth. Her name is Carla Haskell and she's the principal architect of design group Collaborative, whose work in both residential and commercial buildings will take your breath away. She was also on the board of historic theaters for two decades and currently sits on the facility board at the Grand Theatre in downtown Ellsworth, overseeing and implementing changes due to covid so that our community can soon gather at the venue again. Haskell and I meet in downtown Ellsworth to walk to the historic Grand Theater, which is our city's anchor for entertainment. It's a special building because it serves a few purposes theater, live music and also movie-going.
Carla Haskell: You know, a lot of these buildings are expressing the thirties. The grand that we're going to see was built in 38.
Kyle Lamont: We round the corner onto Main Street and you immediately see the Grand's iconic marquee.
Carla Haskell: And then in the thirties, you know, there was this movement towards more streamlined design sensibilities. Art Deco was picked up with the brand and then, of course, everything was built with Brick.
Kyle Lamont: How would you describe the grand to listeners who've never been?
Carla Haskell: Well, the grant is really reflecting the community and the needs of the community. It's really the one of a kind. So when you walk in, not only is the outside like this little gem on Main Street, but you walk in and you really get a sense that it not only has this history of providing a place for people to have fun and enjoy, but even that vibe is really important to be conveying even now. So to me, this is a place of happiness. You know, this is where you have those really special memories.
Kyle Lamont: She was once the president of the board of directors here, which oversaw many renovations, including the marquee and windows.
Carla Haskell: You know, a lot of the stuff is pretty straightforward, but there are sometimes those questions about replacing the glass.You know, the large panes of glass are all original to the 1930s buildings. And it'd be nice to keep them as long as we can. So balancing that with energy, you can see that actually what we've added to the office area is inserts or panels. So it creates the insulation gap. You have two panels, but we're not replacing them with thermal pane windows right now. And those are tradeoffs, you know, but that place on the register is pretty important, too.
Kyle Lamont: What do you love most about the grand architecturally outside of the marquee? What about inside details maybe that you notice or that you just particularly love?
Carla Haskell: I like how humble it was in the beginning. You know, it was made with all of these, actually. It's like a brown compressed board. And so right now it's painted it was painted early 2000s. And it looks beautiful. I mean, I love what they did. It used to be like this cardboard colored interior, which to me just kind of spoke of the humbleness of where we are to and the fact that that was during the Depression. I mean, the depression was a really interesting time and they didn't have a lot of means. And I guess I kind of love the fact that that material sort of talked about that humbleness. It's not full of granite. You know, it definitely has a place in time. And I love that. I love the use of those materials.
Kyle Lamont: The Grand has already begun adapting their building to be covid compliant. The biggest initiative or cost, rather, is a new HVAC system to help circulate the air better.
Carla Haskell: And then also, though, to keep in mind the energy efficiency of it, because, you know, you bring systems like that in, it costs money and then your costs go up, so. With nonprofit theaters and theater venues, as you know, costs are so lean, so we're trying to find that right mix and we've got people on our committee who actually know about these systems. And so that's what's so exciting right now, is that we're going to be finding a solution for it.
Kyle Lamont: And they're having to rethink their concessions and ticketing area.
Carla Haskell: The problem, again, with this modest theater is it doesn't really have a lobby. It's just kind of a pass-through. So you don't want to be walking, right? You don't want to get your ticket and then walkthrough. You don't even want to get your ticket. I mean, you don't want all those interactions, those pauses, those stops. So we're really trying to think of an online process so that you're ordering your ticket online.
Kyle Lamont: The plus side of pushing pause on all the entertainment right now has been the chance to expand a production area for the soundboard to better accommodate the needs of touring bands. And they've also increased the dance floor. We cross the street.
Carla Haskell: Street is and you almost feel like you're taking a life in your hands sometimes.
Kyle Lamont: And walking inside.
Carla Haskell: So this is so delightful as far as the very simple architecture. But again, it's got this natural Coco matte fibre mat, which, you know, was here since the 30s. All of these movie poster cases are all original. Wow. Just really simple. But, you know, it works. It has its own little sense of glamour to it.
Kyle Lamont: It goes a long way. The little stuff, it's the lights.
Carla Haskell: So this used to be where you'd store your coats, but now we've renovated that to become the ticket box. And again, we'll see how that transforms over time with regard to tickets. I mean, art deco really is so special in its way. It's very jewel-like, isn't it? And dramatic. I've always loved art deco. It's such an honor to even have an art deco building to actually work on and be a part of.
Kyle Lamont: Had you worked on one before?
Carla Haskell: No, and I've always admired them. So again, talking about the involvement with the board when there was an opening and I was asked, it was just like, oh my gosh, I would die to be associated with an art deco building. Like, that's a problem in Maine, right. We don't have a lot of stylistic buildings. A lot of them are just evolve over time. So this is pretty special.
Kyle Lamont: Super stylish.
Carla Haskell: Yeah, it is super stylish.
Kyle Lamont: We move from the lobby into the theater and there's a true wow factor in here. It's so hard to believe that this space exists inside from the street. You would never know. There's a beauty and flair and attention to restoration. Every detail from the seats to the stage is built with the 1930s in mind.
Carla Haskell: Well, the stage evolved over time, so it actually has gotten deeper. So this front area got extended really when it was originally a movie house. It was just at the presidium that the stage extended to and they painted all of the surrounds was original, but they did paint it to this beautiful gold and silver. So they did a really nice job capturing the art deco flavor with the paint colors.
Kyle Lamont: One of her favorite memories here was seeing Bela Fleck.
Carla Haskell: It was packed with people and it was a hot August night and everybody was just sweating and screaming and clapping and having such a great time. And we were all just roasted. I almost feel like that was a part of the experience. Was that visceral feeling, you know, of that happening with such a packed house.
Kyle Lamont: And one of her cringiest was during an opera.
Carla Haskell: It was pretty full and it was a pretty traditional group of people here. We had a rainstorm and we had roof leaks. Water started pouring. I mean, and it's continuously dripped throughout the whole performance. It was like a toilet flushing or something. It was just awful. You just can't ignore it. Oh, mortifying.
Kyle Lamont: I'm reminded of the few awesome concerts I've seen here, including The Ghost of Paul Revere and Grace Potter and the Nocturnals. I've watched touring theater troupes performing here and have seen some movies to this place in these rural parts of Maine is all we have to feel an elevated sense of culture. The impetus behind the grand was to rebuild the town after a destructive fire.
Carla Haskell: Well, you know, when the city burned down, the city actually reached out and helped. Now, they didn't fund it, but I think they really made sure that there was a place for this developer to do this theater, because before that, there were lots of different small venues, probably very dangerous real fireboxes. So this was a real important thing at that point in time. And they knew that in planning, you know, because they had an opportunity to plan it. That was an important component. And it is to this day.
Kyle Lamont: I was going to say, you know, it's ironic, I mean, just like you said, they're economic drivers. They bring people to the downtown area from out of town. It all works. I want to learn more about Haskell's design aesthetic and her legacy of work and our coastal community. So we head back to her studio, which is only a two-block walk away from the grand and to anyone driving by. Aside from her cool sign on the front lawn, it looks like a standard colonial house, but it's in fact a repurposed barn.
Carla Haskell: I spoke to some of the historians from the city, you know, realizing that this is all old-growth, original lumber that, you know, you just don't see anymore that was grown right in this area. So it's just kind of exciting to be able to make old buildings kind of come alive and add a little bit of the 21st century to it, which is what this building really is all about. One detail she's most proud of are the windows. I don't know if you can notice, but they're all different sizes because the original barn had all these funky old openings. And so I put these new windows in, but they're all exactly the same proportion as the original. And to me, that's just the charm of older buildings. And I wanted to keep that. But they're obviously brand new windows.
Kyle Lamont: They're letting in shards of autumnal sunlight. And as we continue the interview at her conference table an XLR microphone cord apart, I take stock in the surroundings. There are stacks of organized papers, lots of building material samples and framed magazine articles with shiny pictures of homes she and her team have helped build adorn the walls. Paschalis, dressed in contemporary cool, wearing a flowing rose-colored shirt and chic linen pants.Her clothes definitely reflect her style for design.
Carla Haskell: If I am doing some projects, I try to create maybe some movement and a feeling of movement in a building, if that's possible. So that's one way I might go and it might be really quite modern like. But then there are some buildings that just don't call for that and they don't want that and the clients don't want that. So I try to be responsive to that as well.
Kyle Lamont: Is it fair to say that you skew more on the modern and clean lines and more that is your style?
Carla Haskell: I do. I really try to let the bones of the structure speak for itself and then let the client sort of fill it as they see fit. So I'm trying to create a framework and I think sometimes the work conveys that those clean lines that sort of give you the freedom to move in and do with it as you will. But I do tend to try and be true to our time as well. We're in the 21st century, let's utilize these materials that's captured this time.
Kyle Lamont: And she draws inspiration from traveling.
Carla Haskell: I travel to the Middle East where there's just such fanciful and inventive ways that their buildings have evolved. You know, the balconies that sort of overhang onto the street. I always felt like, oh, my gosh, it's so exciting. And cave dwellings, you know, where people actually live inside limestone rock formations.
Kyle Lamont: And also from the mundane or rather things that people might just overlook, like a simple boathouse.
Carla Haskell: And then up here, it's really just, you know, the the little boathouses that are still there that have been like, you know, 200 years old. But those sorts of vernacular pieces of architecture, so beautiful, so simple. It's just, you know, it's you can really pull it from a lot of different places.
Kyle Lamont: I know. I love just seeing a simple boathouse and feeling so moved.
Carla Haskell: Oh, there's nothing like it. And it's like, wow, how the heck did they do it? You can't really capture it. It's less the details and more about just that essence of materials and location and a lot of stuff you can't define, really.
Kyle Lamont: Haskell got a late start in her career in her 30s. She was working at a bank, but it was lackluster. So in order to pursue her love of architecture, she left it and began working as a drafter for a firm in Boston.
Carla Haskell: So I was actually working, going to school and, you know, raising my children with my husband. And it was tough and it took nine years. It was a long haul, but I got so jazzed by it. And to tell you the truth, it was a bit of an escape going down to Boston and having to do sketches and having to do models and all of that stuff was pretty exhilarating. So all of my thirties, I started at thirty and I got my license at 40. My husband was very supportive. And, you know, I do a lot of community work because my community was supportive. I had friends that would babysit or take care. So that's part of why I like to do a lot of volunteer work and give back, because I felt like I was really supported by my community.
Kyle Lamont: Sounds like the man who you were drafting under really believed in your skills, would you have gone back to school if he hadn't encouraged you?
Carla Haskell: That's really interesting. I hadn't thought of that. It may have been a longer process and I may have. You're right. I may have not and regret it to this day.
Kyle Lamont: Since then, she's gone on to open her own firm where her philosophy is collaboration and teamwork.
Carla Haskell: And then sustainability is part of our philosophical, that buildings can express beauty and be part of the community and still address all of these sort of more technical needs that sustainability involves with regard to our values and walls and roofs and all of that sort of stuff. So those two components, I think, really keep driving us to doing the kind of work that we do.
Kyle Lamont: And when it comes to working with her, having an open mind is the biggest skill set.
Carla Haskell: Yeah. You know, because we're so general, our firm, we do theater work, we do laboratories, we do schools, we do residential. I mean, when you're up in Maine, I mean, we're right in the middle of Maine. You can't be too specialized. We can't afford to be. There's just not that much work. So having that flexibility and that receptiveness to doing that sort of stuff is really what we need. We need an open mind. And that's kind of the biggest skill, to tell you the truth, when designing buildings.
Kyle Lamont: Are you thinking of the feeling one will have or the practicality? I'm sure it's a little bit of both. But what comes first for you?
Carla Haskell: You know, feelings in a building, those ideas evolve. So to me, it all starts with the site and the surroundings and the views and the where the winds are coming from. That's such an important part of if it's a new building, especially where that building sits on the land and that starts informing things right away. And then it is more about the flow through a space. And those first rough sketches are very rough. So they are conveying feelings. Then you layer on technical aspects and then those get interwoven into it as it develops and evolves. So I guess I would agree with you that the way I approach it is more feeling-oriented and then technical sort of interlaced into it as it develops.
Kyle Lamont: And she's known to wake up in the middle of the night with design ideas.
Carla Haskell: My husband can attest I'll wake up in the middle of the night and it's like, if I don't get this down, I'm going to forget about it. Or sometimes I'll dream a solution up, which is really exciting. And maybe I'm not dreaming. Maybe I'm half sleeping, half awake, but I sometimes just need time to mull things over. And so trying to capture it in that moment for me is really important.
Kyle Lamont: Describe the first building. You remember giving you an emotional response.
Carla Haskell: Oh Jeepers Well, I remember walking into my first real cathedral, I think was was St John in New York City. And crying, which I don't know if a building ever did that, so I wasn't like in my early 20s and then, of course, traveling. I mean, the what we did like this theater trip in London. And I remember going to a couple of venues and it was just, you know, that's where the architecture started, really, like, oh my God, this stuff is so old. That was a real turn-on for me. And I guess if I go back in time, there probably weren't real emotions except, you know, churches were always intense.
Kyle Lamont: Maybe it has no words. But why does something so powerful like that bring you an emotion?
Carla Haskell: You know, I guess that's been the big mystery. I mean, there definitely is this mysterious connection that we have to materials form. And I think scale has a lot to do with it, too. And that's sometimes what we miss in these rural communities that we don't have those big scaled buildings that give you you know, I remember actually as a young child, my dad worked for Raytheon, and so we used to go to like submarine launchings and these weird things like that. I'll never forget standing as a young child underneath a large ship and looking up at the bow and just feeling that under a scale of a large ship looming above you. So scale to me. And it's just like what nature does. I mean, you know, those large mountain formations or something skilled really has a visceral impact, at least to me. And I think it does to a lot of people.
Kyle Lamont: What is it like being an architect in rural Maine?
Carla Haskell: Sometimes I treat it like I'm in a foreign land and that there's this special village and, you know, these really I mean, living here day to day, we just don't realize how special and how unique some of these encounters are in rural Maine. And so I have fun in my head thinking about what this place would be like to even to foreigners coming here and seeing it so uniquely. So I try to enjoy that experience. And of course, we do a lot of work on the water. I mean, it's just amazing how many beautiful settings there are. So how can you not get turned on by that? So I feel really fortunate. And then just trying to do really the best design work you can for every project. And that's fun in itself.
Kyle Lamont: In our area, there's a lack of modernity for the most part. It's a lot of colonial-style buildings. Until recently, the new Terramor campground located on Mount Desert Island is KOA glamping experience built for digital nomads. This is the perfect place to stay when traveling around the island and down east. And I'd like to think of myself as a connoisseur of all things cool in Maine. And this is as cool as it gets. And guess what? Haskell designed the Grand Lodge, which has a modern and hip twist to traditional lodges. Upon entering, it will indeed take your breath away.
Carla Haskell: So it does raise the bar for the typical campground. And the whole design of the lodge was to connect with the outside. That was so important. And it's almost like my fantasy of my favorite summer places. You know, the west facing deck with a trellis above that, you can see the sunset and there's a screen porch where you can sit inside during those awful days, but you still feel like you're outside and there's a nice big fireplace on the screen portrayed. So you get blankets and get all comfortable there. And then there's the east-facing deck. One is unexposed and the other does have a sloped the roof kind of slopes and covers it because I love being outside and seeing that early morning sun, because, of course, most of my experience, you know, in Maine is you're always just a little crisp and cold. So that warm sun warming you in the morning with your cup of coffee. So I was really creating in my head these experiences. Right, that the building all around the building supports these outside areas. So I tried to create that a little bit, you know, it feels special. It feels like a cathedral that's connected to the woods in a way.
Kyle Lamont: And all the materials are locally sourced.
Carla Haskell: I mean, it's white pine that stained. So it's right from these forests. And Hemlock. Hemlock is such an underutilized, beautiful wood. So we used a lot for those trellis areas and stuff for our hemlock. And it's pretty enduring outside.
Kyle Lamont: What are your sentiments on a music venue as a building.
Carla Haskell: Sometimes those are very carefully planned moments like Lincoln Center, you know, I mean, how cool is it when the chandelier when the show starts the chandelier goes up? I mean, I just I just love that moment. I mean, it's probably very kitschy, but, you know, it's like, wow, this building is just so meant to be for these performances. But then it's like listening to you talk about the music festival in Belfast.
Kyle Lamont: Haskell's referring to season one of concert cast, episode six of a music festival called All Roads, which repurposes historic buildings into music venues for the night.
Carla Haskell: And you know, the church was not designed like that. Right. But when those accidents happen and it's like, oh, man, although it wasn't designed for this specific type of thing, the kind of spring that the building gives to the music or even the absorption that it does or, you know, that special spot where it's just like all of the music just sounds perfect. Those are accidents. And to tell you the truth, I kind of delight in the accidents.
Kyle Lamont: Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe, a German writer and poet, says music is liquid, architecture and architecture is frozen music. And to me, a music venue is magic in motion. Whether it's a historic theater or a brand new state of the art venue, so much about the place affects how the music is heard and felt. With our pandemic in perspective, we're realizing the importance of place and more so of builder who can adapt and create safe places for us to gather and enjoy the arts. David Byrne goes on to say in his book about how these spaces and the curation of them are what create community. And I know that right now that sense of community is feeling awfully splintered. I bet it's a similar feeling as to how people felt after the fire here. But with strong creative people at the helm, the Grand Theatre and other venues around the country will again rise, this time from covid embers to become a safer and stronger venue ready to endure another century of culture.
Announcer: Little things that go a long way donate to NIVA, the National Independent Venue Association, to save our stages. Our resident mastermind is Mark Tekushan, editor and engineer is Peter McGill. Our supervising producer is Heidi Stanton-Drew. Special thanks to Pepper Little, Amy Charley, Cara Romano, Eddie Contento, Jesse Couto. And thank you for listening.