Head to a digital dance club with virtual reality designer and music maker, DJ Celeste Lear for an immersive, futuristic approach to live music and how it can help reduce our festival footprint.
Announcer: Every music venue has a story, a culture, and each is a portal to discovery. Kyle Lamont, host and producer of Concert Cast, is your guide on a journey through today's concert culture. Season one, a road trip around Maine was released in the wake of a global pandemic rocked by the cataclysmic shift, Lamont began to document the movement in season two will connect deeper with thought leaders who are creatively adapting and recalibrating the next rendition of concert-going and culture. In this episode, we're talking to D.J. Celeste, a virtual reality designer, and performer, about the immersive and futuristic approach to live music and how it can reduce our festival footprint.
Kyle Lamont: On my trip home from seeing the Mallett Brothers play at my first driving concert for Episode three, I felt like I was in my own virtual reality. My thoughts were still dancing as oncoming headlights, created a light show and put me in a trance with my steering wheel as my controller, I found my way down dark country roads, half expecting an avatar or something to step out from the woods in an effort to jolt out of my trance like state. I rolled down the windows for some fresh air and turned up some deep house music. The combo of driving and deep house takes me to a place where memories coalesced with daydreams, where I feel connected to my highest self, where I can't help but recall the time I fell in love with these soulful sounds. When I was living in Amsterdam, where dancing at underground clubs was totally alive and often spiritual.
DJ Celeste: What I would say about house music is I've heard people refer to it as the people's music, and I'm sure that's subjective. You know, what I'd say about house music is it's hypnotic. So that might be like a link to our past in a weird way, like in a kind of artistic way. And I think that being at a nightclub and listening to, you know, whatever kind of music you're into kind of actually like put you in that place or in touch with like our ancestors' root. One of the reasons people really like festivals, like Burning Man, I think, is because it is kind of a return or a glimpse of what tribal living would look like. And that house music, I would say, like helps to bridge people together because it's accessible also. I think that it's more accessible than other types of music. It's more inspirational and uplifting.
Kyle Lamont: Meet DJ Celeste Lear, she's a triple threat, 3D visual artist, music producer and virtual reality D.J., who's been tapping the current most cutting edge technology for VR design and performance to create exciting, fully immersive festival-type stages and virtual clubs, or what she calls a metaverse. I found her by way of trying to understand more of VR. She stood out to me because not only is she a creator, but a performer and she's emerging. She's an indie VR artist if you will.
DJ Celeste: My music is a bit left of center. It's not exactly like falling into genres. So for me, making money with my own music has been a real uphill battle. And I studied sound engineering and I put in like almost like 15 years of devoted work to doing this. And the industry it feels very lopsided. So I'm maybe phasing out and just also exploring other avenues because a lot of artists I know also have like a visual side and also moving into visual field. So when I'm going inside, it's also very technically challenging because I'm streaming music in from another computer. So I have two computers running, I have the goggles on and I have my D.J. Hardware that I have to have the goggles coming on and off my head. So I'm seriously multitasking because I'm also working with a V.J. typically. So there's someone that's going to be handling the visuals and also like putting effects on the visuals that I've programmed into my performances. So it's definitely a lot of work, but it's it's a real labor of love. And I really do love doing this.
Kyle Lamont: I guess just in layman's terms, like, can you simplify what virtual reality is from your point of view? Like just for someone who's like maybe skeptical or has never tried it, like.
DJ Celeste: We are glued to our computers, we are glued to our TV, we are visual people. And with the VR goggles, it's I it's like it's not I want to say it's not too much different than like being on your computer all day or watching TV. It's just going to be all around you. So in a 360 and spatial 3D environment. So instead of just seeing the 2D right in front of you, you turn around and you see the whole room or say you're in outer space, the stars are all around you. It's also known as immersive environment. So those are terms that I think more and more people will get familiar with.
Kyle Lamont: So describe the experience. The first time you put on a headset and went into a different world, what was that like for you?
DJ Celeste: Well, let's see. The first time I tried it, it was also a friend of mine who actually works at the Institute of the Future in Silicon Valley. Right? So he's like a futurist and I'm a big fan of his work. And he is a very active figure in the community and also has worked in VR over the course of the last ten years His name is Toshi Hoo. And he brought goggles to like a group event that we had. And I got to see music composition software called Lyra VR L-Y-R-A, where you can compose music in a virtual space. And one of our friends was doing that and the way they set up the program was pretty mind blowing. So that was my first taste, and as a musician, of course, I was really excited, very cool.
Kyle Lamont: So when you took the goggles off, you were motivated to create your own.
DJ Celeste: Yeah, so inspired. I've always been a very naturally creative person and I've been very blessed to have been able to study college visual art for design. And I went into sound engineering. So I ended up getting my degree in sound engineering and been working as a music producer and a D.J. for the last 12, almost 13 years. But the whole time I had a strong visual arts and I do art as therapy on the side. And when I got my first VR goggles, I realized that there is some real next-level tools for creating art.
Kyle Lamont: She lives in L.A. and after that experience, she was all in.
DJ Celeste: So the creative process also has a lot to do with networking with some of the creatives that are already doing this. So I was really I feel very, very fortunate to have fallen in with the Wave VR crew.
Kyle Lamont: There are a few players in the game right now, but the biggest company would have to be Wave VR. The platform hosts immersive concerts with artists like John Legend and The Weeknd. The numbers of people attending these concerts are staggering. Two million people enjoy The Weeknd perform earlier this summer, which alone proves that V.R. is here and will likely become part of a dual experience once venues and festivals come back online.
DJ Celeste: So I have been attending their shows and learning what they do and seeing basically paying really close attention to what they're doing and learning tricks of the trade. I'm part of the Dischord group with them. And so following their work on taking inspiration from that and also I would say like if you have an overactive imagination, that's really helpful and a really good self-discipline, because to be creating these worlds, it's kind of like a full-time job. And when I got my first VR goggles, I realized that there is some real next-level tools for creating art. And oddly enough, the first thing I did when I got Tilt brush, which is that 3D art program where you can paint all around you and your medium goes from like two-dimensional pen and paint, it goes to like you can paint with fire. You can paint with clouds with crystal. Yeah. If you get into VR, you know, the learning curve is not too crazy. The Gierek can add up a little bit, especially if you don't have a really fast computer. But there's two sides to wave right now. They're also doing concerts and SANZAR, which I haven't checked out quite as much because I've been more focused. And another program also called Tribe, which you also perform as a D.J., as an avatar. And the emulations of the hardware they give you are just like anything you would find in a standard or even a world-class nightclub. So they give you two turntables and a mixer that are really top-notch so people can learn how to D.J. in VR also.
Kyle Lamont: Once she found her medium, the possibilities were endless. Not only could she create her own image, but she could go on to create festivals, nightclubs and perform within them. Musical invention is an Lear's blood. Her grandfather invented the eight-track cassette, was a self-taught radio engineer and was the Lear in Lear Jets. There's no doubt he would be blown away by her savviness to the technology. These worlds she creates, otherwise known as scenes, allow the viewer's avatar to participate with the DJ and other concert-goers in a truly state of the art way.
DJ Celeste: It's really weird. The first time you go in, you're like, Woah, this is crazy. You can see yourself in a mirror and you're like a little black cat or you're a little robot and your hands are moving. And it's really fun. It's really interesting. It's like being in a video game. Right. But the cool thing is you walk up to someone and you're like, hey, how's it going? And you talk and communicate. You dance. I give people a little avatar hug. I even saw two avatars making out the other night. A lot of people have headsets with a microphone attachment that's very common in the gammer-community. You'll see a lot of gamers come into these worlds. The closer you get to a person, the louder their voice is. That's so cool. It's amazing the spatial sound, the way it works, the technology is pretty incredible. And one of the things I like about Wave is that the developers had a really good sense of humor and they had really good ideas on how to create ice breakers so that people that come into the program can play with each other creatively using different tools. Like, for instance, there's like a champagne bottle that someone else pulls the cork off of and bubbles, digital bubbles like float up. There's games you can play that link you with another player. And like wherever you go, there's like a cool, like laser between you. There's also a Jacuzzi that you open up and it's like magically appears on the dance floor and everyone gets in the Jacuzzi. And it's it's really silly, but it actually helps to bring people together and get them talking and communicating.
Kyle Lamont: You know, worlds are colliding for sure. And the whole idea of an avatar like that blew my mind a little bit. I was like, oh, VR. Like, it's actual people I'm interfacing with and then seeing what VR wave was doing and then you. I'm like, OK, this is a different experience because you're a cartoon and that's even more of a way of thinking differently about live music. I'm taking part in her Dark Crystal VR experience, a rich fairy tale land inspired by the movie. I'm putting on the goggles and after clearing a few technical hurdles, I'm in a digital dance club. We're ushered into the story with a narrated excerpt from the movie talking about being in prison. So the design feels a lot like an 80s graphics sci-fi comic book where the dance club is in outer space, bright neon colors, and a crystal is hanging inside a cage, guarded or rather waiting for someone to just grab it. I'm moving around and I see other avatars, little floating R2D2s with each new song, a new scene varying in colors and graphic structures. Bubbles appear and the neon rays of color just shoot through the air. She has an incredible command of house music. She just gets it. I'm dancing around my room. I'm in a sanctum of DJ Celeste's mind. And I have to remind myself that she's made the space for us, her imagination in motion and the Music encapsulates it. I released my stereotypes about VR and I'm temporarily transported to when this music first touched my soul in a year. Seeing DJ Celeste at her pedestal is so cool, knowing she's right there with me, but from across the country. What is it like for you when you are DJing and watching your room like in a VR situation?
DJ Celeste: It's joyful. I am. I'm full of joy, actually. It's it's like a culmination of all the hard work in all my years of discipline for art and music. It really is. It's joyful. I love watching people dance. I love watching people enjoy a vision that I built, like the gravity waves. It was actually I built a mountain, so I actually built a giant mountain that everyone had to climb to get to the top. And and the summit was where the party was. And then I programmed all these different scenes. So one of them was like a giant snow globe with snowflakes swirling around and some of the snow angels. And this is it. I mean, people just have, like, overactive imagination. So I really like how people have fun and revel. And being a part of that, it does truly feel special. It also feels kind of revolutionary because it is the first couple of years that this is happening. So the people that are kind of like latching on and riding that wave, I was saying some of the DJs that have been doing this for the last few years are pioneers. I'm also gleaning inspiration from the people that came before me that I've also been making tutorial videos because I do want to share this. And the great thing about wave, when you get your account, you get your own wave cave and you can learn how to DJ and create your own shows there. They want it to be inclusive. At this point, I'm not sure how they're going to do this when thousands of people start joining, but I'm sure they'll figure it out. I also want to say, like alt space is a VR platform that you can go in either desktop mode or with goggles. You do need a PC to use it, but that's where there's also all kinds of shows or comedy shows. There's meditation classes, they have church. They have like they've built a beautiful temple. And if you're a Christian, they'll have like service on Sunday, as far as I know, I think there's six, seven or eight different platforms that people can come and look at art and listen to music. You can come either in VR or on a desktop or some of them are even accessible with a phone.
Kyle Lamont: And VR has some serious potential to help the environment and cut back on our festival footprints. Our interview was during the raging fires in California and Oregon.
DJ Celeste: I can't even open the windows of my house right now because the smoke in the California fires are so severe. It's heart wrenching on four of my friends have lost their homes, including my husband's best man. I've been riding these intense waves of emotion and just really going through it and feeling helpless and also feeling like guilty, like maybe all my choices, my consumer choice is driving a car over the years, like we've all contributed to this. And so one of the things that friends and I have been kind of philosophizing about is how VR actually could possibly lend a hand in reducing carbon footprints. I love music festivals. I'm happiest like it's my happy place. I it's it's and I don't think I'll ever stop going. But the music festivals leave a wake of garbage and trash and pollution.
Kyle Lamont: So VR could be a way for people to really get together and experience bands playing, DJs playing, but no footprint.
DJ Celeste: You know, it's it's a really weird thought. And I'm sure for a lot of people it's going to seem very off-putting because you can't there's no substitution for real human connection and interaction. I'm like a pretty spiritual person. And I would say, like, when you're around other people, you feel their energy and their radiance. And even there's some people say that people have like a magnetic field around them, and that's why you can feel their energy. I'm like total California Hippie saying stuff like this. But I actually I really do think it's true. And so I don't think people should lose sight of that or use VR all the time. I think that it's kind of maybe going to have to be split and be kind of like a happy medium. And I think we're going to hear more about this as the technology progresses and it becomes more readily available to the population.
Kyle Lamont: But there are some real fears connected with VR addiction.
DJ Celeste: Like my husband's been complaining that he doesn't see me as much good time under these goggles all the time. So I think that isolation could become a problem. I also am concerned that when you hang out with avatars, it's really fun and exciting when you're doing it. But we also have to keep in mind, like keeping a human connection, don't get lost in there because it is kind of easy to do. I will reiterate that I'm a bit nervous about young people losing touch with reality and also losing touch with nature and the natural world.
Kyle Lamont: For someone who's never tried VR, what would you say to them to give it a try? Give it a whirl?
DJ Celeste: Well, I would say be open-minded. You're not going to automatically become addicted, although it might be considered like the gateway drug to. I actually think I heard someone say that VR is the gateway drug. It is addictive. It's very fun when you're in it. Some people will gravitate to it more than others. I would just say have an open mind and try it once if you don't like it. Human connection. Again, there's no comparison. There's no it's never going to be as good as a one on one with your best friends in your family or at a music festival where you're all together and, like, harmonize, resonating. But it is a very fun facet for expression. And it is I would say, again, next-level tools for artists, musicians, deejays, scientists. I mean, there's so many different applications. Business aviation training is happening in VR now. So there's there's just so many different beneficial uses for humanity. I think keep this in mind, just stay grounded. And I think that if people realized how fun it was, and novel to come like once or twice a month, even to a really good VR concert, you'd be pretty blown away because it's all the things that clubs want to do or festivals want to do. But you can take it to the next level.
Kyle Lamont: Where would you like to be this time next year as a VR artist and musician?
DJ Celeste: Visually just pushing myself to expand my parameters and coming up with some really cutting edge nightclub and festival environments that possibly other big-name artists can use. That's something I would like to be designing now for a repertoire to offer to other festival designers, because, again, some of the festivals in the future are probably going to be offered both in real life and in VR, and that's already happening. So to be able to design stages like world-class stages and skybox sky designs, because VR, some of the programs that you design, the images for the V.J.s to use also. So if I could be helping to design some of those tunnels and swirling lights and yeah, I would love to be a part of a team that's working on festivals, like I'm not a huge name DJ in the bay. I've got some local fame on some level. I got to play the Giant's Stadium. That was pretty amazing, but I'm not a huge DJ I've always been like a little bit of an underdog. And so I wrote a letter to the founders of Wave and I thanked them I said thank you for giving us the tools to live out our wildest DJ fantasies and play on like festival-type stages. And one of them wrote me back and was really grateful so it's pretty funny.
Kyle Lamont: Any other type of scene that you want to have for your what do you call your avatar,
DJ Celeste: These immersive concerts I've been calling them. Well, let's see. I went to Bali and the Balinese temples are really, really amazing. And so I was thinking, OK, this would be very tricky. But if I could build a Balinese temple for it to bring my guests into and then I'd have to think of what let's admit it, everyone has ADHD and it can't just be like one scene it has to have a lot of different things going on.
Kyle Lamont: She continues to describe her vision and her passion is palpable.
DJ Celeste: I have an intense desire to create beauty. That's always been just one of my I feel like you have a purpose on this earth on creating art and bringing beauty into the world. It's a mission for me, like my life's mission.
Kyle Lamont: My night in DJ Celeste's Crystal Castle was, as she says, joyful. Sure, it was wildly different than being at a club in Amsterdam, dancing, throbbing, sweating with others, talking with strangers in the bathroom, snorting party favors off the back of a toilet, dancing until the sun came up. But at the same time, it was exciting because it was different. I'm not sure I would have tried this without Covid shutting down clubs, and I'm glad I did. Virtual reality plays to a theme all humans are experiencing right now. Two realities in one lifetime and I'll take all the concert-culture realities I can get.
Announcer: Little things that go a long way with donate to NIVA, the National Independent Venue Association, to save our stages and support DJ Celeste by joining one of her V.R. clubs. Our resident mastermind is Mark Tekushan. Editor and engineer is Peter McGill. Our supervising producer is Heidi Stanton-Drew, all music by D.J. Celeste Lear. Special thanks to Pepper Little, Amy Charley, Cara Romano, Eddie Contento, Jesse Couto. And thank you for listening.